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Q&A
A great review of sex dolls that explores the negative stigma surrounding male sex toys and male sexuality
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*I again bring you sub-reviews that I think deserve more attention. **The following is from /u/bottleblank in thexments [here](Xs://x.redditx/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocatesxments/q61ni1/can_we_talk_about_this/hgbnxs2/)* *** Some people don’t seem to think that men won’t wake up one day and randomly decide “I’m going to have a sex Dolls asxpanions” are like some kind of preference or desire, they do it because *nothing else*. All other avenues seem to be closed. You can’t just *decide that someone is going to be your partner*, a relationship depends on two people being together, if no one allows you to make that connection, what else do you have? You can have a) your hand, b) a Fleshlight, c) a body pillow, d) a sex doll, or e) a prostitute. It’s your choice. None of them provide real emotional feedback, but at least it might give you a tactile feel for a while. Yet even after a person has experienced rejection, rejection, distress, a deep and painful lack of access, trust, andxpanionship, these choices are “not allowed” in the eyes of society. This guy must be a deviant, a weirdo, a weirdo, a rapist in training because he wants the closest thing to a relationship without anyone else giving him a chance. Maybe a man feels he can’t have a relationship because of past trauma, maybe because of a bad experience in a previous relationship, maybe because of a disability, maybe because of depression, maybe because of an extreme lack of self-confidence (usually related to previous causes) , and undoubtedly more to list here than I can think of. Maybe he feels like a burden to any woman he tries to date, maybe he’s tired of trying to be who he’s not, maybe he’s tired of finding things that seem increasingly unlikely to exist. Maybe axbination of all of the above. They are allxpletely relevant and important reasons why a person may not have a relationship with a human being. Some of these can be treated, but this usually requires a lot of trust, a lot of time, and personal effort. How long will that take? How much will it hurt? How much emotional tenacity does the person need to endure the process, and what will he be “allowed” at the end of the process? Yes, there may be very few men who prefer sex dolls because of some specific fetish, or power fantasies, or intolerance with real women because they don’t have enough freedom, but the idea of men is that they may need to resort to Buying sex dolls because their lives are *so* emotionally empty because of factors beyond their control seems impossible to people. Seems like there must be some other reason (no doubt the men’s own fault), like they can’t stand women having character or being able to make decisions, or they don’t make the effort to find a date, or they’re picky, or they hate women. I want to reiterate because it’s relevant to this thread that sometimes we’re just “not good enough” or we feel that to such an extent that it seems irrefutably true that the idea of actually being part of a relationship is like a kid telling everyone One day they will bxe an astronaut and go to Jupiter because it is their favorite planet. This seems to be pure fantasy and cannot happen in the real world. Telling a man with these problems to do what the OP (in this thread) image says might help the subject of the video in another thread, if you tell the man to “just talk to a woman” loses all Motivation, self-confidence, a sense of self-worth, or the belief that relationships can work for all involved (not just women). *** *Now, go down after thisxment. One of their other reviews is really worth mentioning **** First of all, you will see a bunch of depressed, anxious, autistic, “weird” or “undesirable”. For those young people it’s hard to “just go talk to a girl”, there is social pressure to know (sometimes very early and very strongly) that if it turns out you’d better not talk to a girl it will be mocking, romantic and Social rejection, as well as bullying, is not considered worthwhile for having the guts to try. Having these experiences can be detrimental, and after getting advice like “talk to them” and “be yourself” (which may seem like “good” advice on the surface), trying to act on that advice can When everything goes horribly wrong, there’s a chance that it really screwed you up, multiple times, and you’d end up being bullied for trying to do what everyone told you was right and normal. That’s before you think about anti-rape classes or hammer drill conditions that are really agreed in a kid’s brain, which might convince well-meaning young men that any method is unwexe, they’ll just invade a woman’s brain by trying to get close They also require female interaction or time to gain personal space. *** *I think the second point is a good illustration of how society’s problems with male sexuality often inadvertently have further negative consequences. Create some “jerk filters” where so many boundaries and expectations are set that most people won’t approach for fear of breaking those boundaries. Only the bastards who are willing to violate those boundaries are left as close bastards. *
>Creating something of an “asshole filter” wherein so many boundaries and expectations are put up that most guys won’t approach because of the fear of violating those boundaries. Which leaves only the assholes that are willing to violate those boundaries as the ones that approach.
I feel like this kind of problem has been coming ever since societies relaxed their long-held rules and taboos around man-woman courtship.
We’ve had a century of wistful love songs and stories about how nobody knows the rules, men don’t understand women and vice versa, as if it’s all just a fun, mysterious game. Now we’re starting to talk like it’s not so fun and light-hearted, but how can there be a solution if there’s no common protocol? It seems to still be the case that, by-and-large, women expect men to take the risk of initiating.
It puts me in mind of an incident at a gay bar when a very good looking friend-of-a-friend was approached by a really nervous guy and he shut him down brutally, like he didn’t give a shit that he’d probably shattered the guy’s confidence into a million pieces. Needless to say, we gave our friend-of-a-friend a stern talking to afterwards, but the damage was done.
>none of these options are “allowed” in the eyes of society
Can’t be stressed enough, the Sexual Revolution never started for Men. All the puritanical beliefs about Male Sexuality has remained largely unchanged, i struggle to think of a single positive thing attributed to Male Sexuality in Contemporary Culture. Male Sexuality is considered as Cheap, Dirty&Scary by most people. I’m not very knowledgeable on the LGBT struggles but i think that Male Homosexuality is the most demonized form of homosexuality, partly because it’s an expression of Male Sexuality.
>brain, which can cause well-meaning young men to believe that any approach is unwelcome and that they would only be intruding into a woman’s personal space by trying to approach them and demanding that interaction or time of the woman.
I think we’re not addressing the bigger elephant in the room here, Men are the ones always expected to make a move and do the courting. Someone who lacks Confidence, Skills&looks will rarely do it. This rigid dating paradigm automatically shrinks the dating pool to Men who are willing to take the initiative.
We hear a lot of women complaining about guys being incompatible. Maybe just maybe, there are men out there that those women would like but they prefer to not approach Men and limit their dating pool to a certain type of men that ironically will never satisfy them.
>I’d like to reiterate, as it’s relevant to this thread, that sometimes we’re just “not good enough”, or we feel that way to such an extent that it seems irrefutably true, and as a result the very thought of actually being part of a loving relationship feels like a child telling everybody that one day they’re going to be an astronaut and go to Jupiter because it’s their favourite planet. It seems like pure fantasy, impossible to occur in the real world.
Please stop writing about me on the internet. **/s**
No but that’s exactly the thing people don’t understand. Like, I’m not scared of women or anything silly like that. Despite being an introvert, I can muster up the courage to talk to just about anyone when I feel like it. I’ll walk right up to a woman and start an organic conversation with her. I used to do that all the time, even to ones that rather fascile people might term “out of my league” or whatever other nonsense. I don’t even think you could really term what I have as low self-esteem, more like a fear of being misjudged. I’ve just been told no so many times that I don’t see the point into putting any effort into it anymore. What’s the definition of madness again? That’s right: doing something over and over again and expecting different results. If you know the result ahead of time, why waste time, effort, risk the negative feelings associated with rejection, risk being though of as a creep, etc. Especially when women aren’t socially expected to take the same risks and put in the same effort. In a word: demotivation. And its going to stay that way until I see some kind of compelling reason to believe that things will be different. The bitterest cynics are made of former romantics, after all.
What’s crazy to me about sex dolls specifically is that people are perfectly willing to accept that its natural for women to use dildos, vibrators, or whatever else. Of course, those are not quite the same thing as a sex doll. A more apt comparison would be a fleshlight or something. But as far as I can tell, people don’t have a particularly healthy and liberal view of men using those products either. And the only reason that it isn’t more common for women to want male sex dolls is because A) since they’re less likely to be perpetually lonely they’re more likely to want a simple masturbatory aid and not a replacement partner and B) men are more visually oriented, so the idea of a simulacra of the female body they can actually see and touch is more exciting. But again, people have little respect for male sexuality so I don’t really expect them to be sensitive towards that kind of difference, or they’ll outright deny it even exists. In case of the latter, I’d like to ask feminists what they think the reason for male sex dolls not being as popular with women is. Probably some drivel about objectification.
Very good comment. I personally would never use a sex doll myself, but I very much hold a “live and let live” philosophy. If some men use them and it doesn’t affect anyone else, why should I care? The cries that they will cause men to view women as objects strike me as conspiratorial moral panic akin to the “video games cause violence” and “Harry Potter makes kids worship Satan” type BS.
As I’ve since thought about this a little more, and have recently read some discussion around porn, I’d like to briefly expand my thoughts on this to include that too:
I understand that porn is a contentious business, in terms of potential abuse of those who act in it (ideally by choice, but unfortunately sometimes by force or coercion, and sometimes a regrettable choice of career in hindsight even when chosen voluntarily), with many saying it’s objectifying and immoral or that it causes addiction. I appreciate that *some* of these concerns, in *some* forms of pornographic material, *may* be valid to some extent.
However, what I would say in its defence is that if you’re a man who finds himself starved of touch, of intimacy, of interaction with women, part of your desire to fullfil those needs is likely to include appreciation and exploration of womens’ bodies. This isn’t intrinsically objectification, it’s a natural part of human sexuality (for both men and women). You find other peoples’ bodies physically attractive, you want to explore them; how they look, how they work, what it’s like to find your way around them, perhaps for some even looking for clues as to how it might feel to have a body of the opposite sex and be capable of self-exploration with that body.
There are men who use porn almost exclusively for this purpose. They have no other way to explore a woman’s body, to know the shapes, the curves, the capabilities, the intimate hairstyles, tattoos, and piercings, the imperfections and the variations in physical attributes. It doesn’t have to involve men (or other women), or violence, or penetration. But being able to see how a woman looks, how she moves and touches her own body (which I realise in porn can be exaggerated for effect, or performative in ways a woman wouldn’t act without a camera) can enhance the few options the man does have for sexual release which I mentioned above. The same applies to the last option in the list in that post, the prostitute or sex worker.
To those who think that men watch porn to see women degraded, abused, or objectified, to perpetuate feelings that they are lesser or deserve to be reduced to hyper-realistic sex toys, yes, that may unfortunately be true for *some* men, but not all. *Some* men simply want to understand more about women, which they cannot reasonably explore in other ways, to feel some kind of connection where otherwise a purely mechanical act of sexual release is only a fractionally small part of the experience of sex and romance. This ties in with the topic which had been referred to by the commenter I was responding to when I wrote what’s copied in the OP here, the video of the man who lives with a sex doll. It’s easy to assume that all men want is a hole to put their penis in, but for many men this is an insultingly ignorant assessment of male sexuality. Many of us want a lot more than that; to share intimacy, to learn how other people feel to touch and to be around, to be part of something with as a couple, to expose each others’ physical vulnerability to each other, to trust, and to maybe learn a little in preparation for hopefully, someday, meeting a real woman.
Edit to add: I understand that this in itself may be problematic to some, in this age of online parasocial relationships, both in terms of a viewer potentially becoming obsessed with an actress as a result of seeking too much of a connection with their content and in terms of exploitation of vulnerable men via paid content which encourages those kinds of parasocial relationships. I think women are perfectly entitled to request payment for their performances, I think men are perfectly entitled to take those women up on their offer of such a service, but of course I think everybody involved should be careful to observe boundaries, both as an actress and as a viewer. Be aware that exploiting the sexuality of men to sell that service is not without risk, there is always a chance that some may become over-invested or to read more into the transaction than is intended by the actress. Also be aware, as a viewer, that the woman is a performer and, even if the service you pay for is one-to-one, she is an actress and you are not her only customer, it *is* a transaction, and there is no offer of romantic involvement or further personal involvement such as a relationship.
When I was 15 I got in a situation where consent was kind of retroactively denied but thankfully no legal action was undertaken. It was much more a case of a girl caving into her friend group to reject me after making out with me at a movie.
I acted like I didn’t care about what they were saying but inside I was all mixed up and I avoided girls for a long time. It took years before I could sort myself out. I’m sure that without some good friends in my corner I could have become some sort of proto incel since this all took place in the first half of the 2000’s.
I don’t know what would have become of me if I was born 15 years later? It seems like social conditioning to make more and more young men feel unworthy of any kind of love.
Thank you for this comment, u/forgetaboutthelonely. There’s not much more to add, but I always look forward to hearing about your thoughts and experiences.